how is caffeine different than alcohol?

[skeeter lee]

Mormons say you can't drink alcohol or coffee. Christian Scientists say you can't drink alcohol, but coffee -- or coca-cola -- is a matter of individual choice.

I don't get that. I mean, a drug's a drug, right? Or are there "lesser" drugs and "greater" drugs?

[Aslan]

Actually, as a practitioner friend has pointed out to me, a careful study of the Manual of the Mother Church reveals that it does not forbid members from the use of alcohol or tobacco, just as it does not forbid members from seeking medical care.

As I have heard it put in a television program produced by the First Church of Christ Scientist (the Mother Church), "Christian Science is the champion of free moral agency."

I don't know personally of any practicing Christian Scientists who are church members and still use alcohol or tobacco. I would be less than honest if I didn't admit to having been addicted for many years to cola drinks containing caffeine. At home I drank the "no caffeine" variety, but when having meals in restaurants or grabbing a soda at the convenience store fountain that variety is unavailable.

[MikeDavis]

Skeeter,

Mortal mind uses any psychoactive drug (alcohol, caffeine, etc. etc.) to express and reinforce the belief that mind is in matter. But when we examine the potential effects of alcohol on individuals and society, it is apparent that there is a particularly negative underlying pattern associated with it. In fact, alcohol acts directly in suppressing parts of the brain that mortal mind believes are associated with moral and temperate behavior, thus "freeing the lower propensities" as Mrs. Eddy says. When one studies everything Mrs. Eddy says about alcoholic beverages, it is clear that she felt it was wrong for a Christian Scientist to align himself or herself with this universal false belief of mortal mind to even the slightest degree.

Regarding caffeine, Mrs. Eddy did not permit any Christian Scientist working in her household to use it and she did not use it herself. So it seems obvious that she felt its use would hamper her work and the work of the Christian Scientists in her household. But she apparently regarded alcohol as manifesting evil to an even greater degree, and thus went beyond the negative things she said about caffeine in her writings to teaching that it was essential for a Christian Scientist to totally abstain from alcohol.

[royan]

I think there isn't any drugs at all. They are all mindless.

[levity]

May I start with a tiny point of clarification? My issue with saying, "Christian Scientists say you can't drink alcohol" is that it misrepresents what I feel is a fundamental tenet of Christian Science, and that is: We each have an unmediated relationship with God, and it's our own prayers and listening to God that guide us, not church policy or doctrine.

That said, to my way of understanding, a drug is a drug is a drug. A drug is defined as something that affects the structure or any function of the body. In other words, something with the power to act, affect, control, manipulate, etc.

I don’t choose to drink alcohol, or beverages with caffeine, because in my daily life, I’m trying to live in a way that honors God as the only power, the only actor, the only cause. I’m not obsessive about avoiding these things; I just have no interest in them.

I love the idea that each of us is governed by God, cared for by God. Of course, this government, this care, doesn’t stop if one were to use a drug of any kind. God is God; His love for us doesn’t change.

But I also know that, in the same way I couldn’t best follow Jesus’ command to “love your neighbor as yourself” if I were slandering my neighbor, or stealing from him, or in any way being unkind, I feel like I can’t best follow the first commandment, to have one God, one power, if I’m making the choice to use a drug in any form, to cede power to some other substance/entity.

Again, this is just my perspective, what I’ve come to through my own prayers. But it is what makes sense to me, and I hope it sheds some light on the subject.

[Do Go Be Man]

skeeter lee,

There was a time when members of The Mother Church were expected to be free of alcohol, tobacco, tea, coffee, opium, and other drugs. They were also expected to be chaste (not the same thing as celibate for those who are married). Christian Science, however, is not the only belief system struggling with relaxation of the standards of the past.

While not expressed as outright prohibitions, the most direct references I recall include:

"The depraved appetite for alcoholic drinks, tobacco, tea, coffee, opium, is destroyed only by Mind's mastery of the body. This normal control is gained through divine strength and understanding. There is no enjoyment in getting drunk, in becoming a fool or an object of loathing; but there is a very sharp remembrance of it, a suffering inconceivably terrible to man's self-respect. Puffing the obnoxious fumes of tobacco, or chewing a leaf naturally attractive to no creature except a loathsome worm, is at least disgusting." (S&H 406:28-407:5)

"Chastity is the cement of civilization and progress. Without it there is no stability in society, and without it one cannot attain the Science of Life." (S&H 57:1-3)

The full definition of chastity includes more than sexual morality. Thus, obedience to civil laws regarding drugs would be included.

Do Go Be Man
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[Caron]

Originally Posted by skeeter lee

Christian Scientists say you can't drink alcohol, but coffee -- or coca-cola -- is a matter of individual choice.

I wonder where this came from. As has been pointed out, it's not in the Manual of The Mother Church, which contains the requirements for membership in the worldwide organization.

I would not be surprised to find it on some branch church (local) membership applications, however. Each branch church is an independent entity, and makes its own rules for membership. Our branch church decided a few years ago to examine our membership requirements and bring them into accord with what is required of a Mother Church member.

I find it so sad that some people think Christian Science is more about not taking medicine and not drinking and smoking, than about loving one's neighbor as oneself and learning to overcome sin of all kinds. If they have to answer questions about drinking, smoking, and using medicine, why don't applicants also need to answer these types of questions:

Do you forgive easily?
Have you overcome a negative personality trait lately?
Do you speak kindly to each person in your life?
Do you eat in moderation?
Do you give freely of your time and resources to worthwhile activities?
Do you express joy and a zest for life?

I'm not saying that these questions ought to be on the application. I'm just making the point that they address the spiritually-based life that Christian Scientists want to achieve.

Being a student of Christian Science means a life of progress in overcoming limitations of all kinds. Using drugs slows spiritual growth, because it is involves trust in matter rather than Spirit. I can say that from personal experience.

On the other hand, when I began studying Science & Health, and was still smoking, and drinking coffee and tea, I was able to experience healing and was able to help others have healings. I want people to know that, no matter where you are right now, God's help is available to you. The more you rely on Him, and the less on material substances, the more power you will experience. Take one step at a time, with confidence and trust, and God will lead you to the next stage of progress.

[MikeDavis]

Originally Posted by Do Go Be Man

... the most direct references I recall include:

"The depraved appetite for alcoholic drinks, tobacco, tea, coffee, opium, is destroyed only by Mind's mastery of the body. This normal control is gained through divine strength and understanding. There is no enjoyment in getting drunk, in becoming a fool or an object of loathing; but there is a very sharp remembrance of it, a suffering inconceivably terrible to man's self-respect. Puffing the obnoxious fumes of tobacco, or chewing a leaf naturally attractive to no creature except a loathsome worm, is at least disgusting." (S&H 406:28-407:5)

"Chastity is the cement of civilization and progress. Without it there is no stability in society, and without it one cannot attain the Science of Life." (S&H 57:1-3)

Here are a couple of other references:

From page 289 of Mrs. Eddy's book, Miscellaneous Writings:

"Strong drink is unquestionably an evil, and evil cannot be used temperately: its slightest use is abuse; hence the only temperance is total abstinence."

From page 454 of Science and Health:

"It need not be added that the use of tobacco and intoxicating drinks is not in harmony with Christian Science."

It has been said in this thread that alcohol is not mentioned in the requirements for membership in The Mother Church in the Church Manual. This is true, but it should be noted that one of the requirements is that "the applicant must be a believer in the doctrines of Christian Science according to the platform and teaching contained in the Christian Science textbook, Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, by Rev. Mary Baker Eddy." (Manual, page 34). Of course, one of the teachings in Science and Heath is that it is not in harmony with Christian Science to use alcohol. So an applicant for membership in The Mother Church should be a believer in this teaching, as well as all the other teachings that are in Science and Health.

[Jael]

Originally Posted by levity

That said, to my way of understanding, a drug is a drug is a drug. A drug is defined as something that affects the structure or any function of the body. In other words, something with the power to act, affect, control, manipulate, etc.

Based on the above statement, food should be eliminated! It's amazing the impact that sugar and starches have on the body starting with eroding the teeth and moving on to hyperactivity from too much sugar. Sugared cereals are the worst. Then of course we could discuss obesity from too much sugar. Or how about butter? Boy does it taste delicious, but it clogs the arteries and packs on the pounds just like sugar. On the otherhand, you have milk. It's impact well.....is phenomenal, especially with both calcium and Vitamin D. Then of course there's bananas with all the potassium they offer. I could go on and on with the medicinal values or dangers from all types of foods.

The point is that anything you put in your mouth be it drugs, alcohol, food, water, etc impacts the body.

Jael

[Aslan]

skeeter lee;

The church gladly explains it to anyone who will ask and listen. Most people would accept as true whatever they hear from their friends or "experts" who write on comparative religion rather rather than go to a source that has already been maligned by these sources as exploitive and manipulative.

Regards,
Aslan